ESPRITBIKER

Vous souhaitez réagir à ce message ? Créez un compte en quelques clics ou connectez-vous pour continuer.
Le Deal du moment : -23%
(Black Friday) Apple watch Apple SE GPS 44mm ...
Voir le deal
199 €

+3
Terminator
DidBoum
farmer
7 participants

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    avatar
    farmer


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 499
    Age : 62
    Localisation : canada
    Date d'inscription : 14/12/2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par farmer Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 11:54

    lisé cette article on essais de nous faire croit que l'huile moto est differente et meilleur et on paye 2 a 3 fois plus chere liser cest article et dite ce que vous en resumé Motorcycle Oils vs. Automotive Oils
    Surprising New Evidence on the Viscosity-Retention Question
    Walk into any motorcycle dealership parts department and you are virtually guaranteed to see prominent displays of oils produced specifically for use in motorcycle engines. Since dealers are not about to waste valuable floor or counter space on a product unless it produces a decent profit, it is obvious that motorcycle-specific oils have become one of the premier parts department cash cows of the 1990s.

    Of course advances in lubrication technology have resulted in some fairly expensive premium, synthetic and synthetic-blend products for automobiles also. But as you can see from our pricing research at a half-dozen auto parts and cycle parts stores, the average purchase price for the motorcycle-specific lubricants runs about 120 percent higher for petroleum products and 185 percent higher for synthetic products than do their automotive counterparts. (See Figure 1)

    The companies marketing these high-priced motorcycle lubricants would have us believe that their products are so superior to the automotive oils as to justify paying two and three times the price. But are we really getting the added protection promised when we purchase these products? MCN decided to look beyond the advertising-hype, specifically to see if the claims of prolonged and superior viscosity retention could be verified. What we found may very well change your mind about what should go into your motorcycle's crankcase in the future.

    So The Story Goes ...
    Many motorcyclists have long doubted the need to pay the inflated prices asked for most motorcycle-specific engine oils. An even larger number of us have harbored at least some degree of skepticism about the claims made for motorcycle oils, but have been reluctant to turn away from them, for fear of damaging our precious machines if the claims should happen to be true. Most of this fear comes from very successful marketing campaigns mounted by the manufacturers and distributors of motorcycle-specific lubricants.

    For example, a monthly trade publication for motorcycle dealers recently published an article suggesting, "negative selling techniques" to "educate customers" against purchasing automotive oil for their bikes. The example in the article begins with the benevolent dealer looking the poor, dumb customer in the eye and asking, in an incredulous voice, "You're not really using that in your motorcycle, are you?"

    The idea, of course, is not so much to educate as to frighten the customer into paying for the more expensive motorcycle oil that only guess-who sells. Such techniques have played on our fears with great effect, to the point where high-priced, motorcycle-specific lubricants have become staple profit producing items in the majority of motorcycle dealership parts departments throughout the country.

    The campaigns promoting motorcycle-specific oils have successfully indoctrinated an entire Generation of motorcycle riders and mechanics. The doctrine is now so ingrained in the industry that questioning its veracity instantly marks you as an ill-educated outsider. Even MCN has fallen victim to the hype, espousing the superiority of such products in these very pages. Our own technical experts from the American Motorcycle Institute have repeatedly advised our readers against the dangers of straying from the straight and narrow path.

    What we, as well as the AMI, your local mechanic and all the other motorcycling publications have been doing is simply repeating what we have been carefully taught to believe over the years. The only problem with this approach is that our only source of information has been the people who stand to profit from our faith in the superiority of motorcycle-specific oils.

    Stretching the Truth - Just a Bit
    Motorcycle oil producers make a multitude of claims for their products, some of which are extremely difficult to substantiate, and others which are simply outdated and no longer applicable. This is not to say that all claims made for the superiority of motorcycle oils are necessarily false, only that the actual differences between them and their automotive counterparts may be considerably less than we have been lead to believe. For example:

    Claim - Since the introduction of catalytic converters in utomobiles, the best anti-wear agents have been limited by law to the amount that an be used in automotive oils, but are present in greater concentration in motorcycle oils.

    Fact - Phosphorous deteriorates the catalyst in converters and is therefore restricted to a very small percentage in automotive oils. Phosphorous is also an essential element in one of the best anti-wear agents, ZDDP (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate), which is a primary component of such over-the-counter engine additives as STP Engine Treatment.

    While it is true that slightly increased concentrations of ZDDP are found in some motorcycle oils (such as Spectro products), it is also true that these concentrations still fall under the governmental limits, otherwise these oils could not be used in the new converter-equipped motorcycles from BMW and Yamaha. Also, it should be noted that ZDDP is a "last line of defense"-type additive, generally only coming into play under extremely severe conditions where actual metal-to-metal contact occurs within an engine, something that should never happen under normal operating conditions.

    Claim - Motorcycle engines run hotter and rev higher than automobile engines, therefore requiring oils with more expensive, shear-stable polymers and additives than automotive oils.

    Fact - This is one of those statements that was much more true in the 1970s than in the 1990s. The big, slow-revving Detroit automobile engines of the past have mostly been replaced with smaller, higher-revving four-cylinder and six-cylinder engines that have much more in common with their counterparts running on two wheels. Keeping pace with the development of the small, high-revving, automobile engine, automotive oils have improved considerably, to the point where the newer, SG-rated automotive oils are nearly identical to motorcycle oils.

    In most cases where motorcycle oil producers show comparisons between their products and automotive oils, you will find them using SE- or SF-rated oils as the "automotive standard." These are oils that were designed and rated for the cars of 10 to 20 years ago. We have yet to see a motorcycle oil compared in testing to the 1990's standard, SG-rated premium automotive oils.

    The Viscosity-Retention Claim
    By far the loudest and most-believed claim made for motorcycle oils is that they retain their viscosity longer than automotive oils when used in a motorcycle. The standard claim made in most advertising is that motorcycle-specific oils contain large amounts of expensive, shear-stable polymers that better resist the punishment put on the oil by the motorcycle's transmission, thus retaining their viscosity longer and better than automotive oils would under the same conditions.

    This quote comes directly from the back of a bottle of Spectro 4 motorcycle oil, and is similar to the advertising line used by nearly all motorcycle oils: Because of its special polymers, Spectro 4 maintains its viscosity, whereas the shearing action of motorcycle gears quickly reduces the viscosity of automotive oils.

    We've all heard it a thousand times before. Our transmissions are the culprits that force us to buy special, $6-a-quart motorcycle oil instead of the 99 cent special at Pep Boys. We hate to have to do it, but we all know that it's true--or is it?

    The question begged an answer, so MCN went looking for evidence that motorcycle oils really are more shear-stable than their automotive counterparts.

    Help From the Scientific Quarter
    About the same time we began looking into the oil viscosity retention question, we received a letter from John Woolum, a professor of physics at California State University - and a motorcyclist - who noted that he was investigating in the same area on his own. Not being ones to look a gift horse in the mouth, we contacted Dr. Woolum and encouraged him to expand his research on our behalf.

    Later in this article Dr. Woolum explains the laboratory procedures he used to generate the statistics used in this article. but for the mean-time let's just take a look at the bottom line when five popular oils (three automotive and two motorcycle) were compared for relative viscosity retention after use in the same motorcycle. (See Figure 2)

    As can be seen from the figures, the best-performing oil of the group tested was Mobil 1 automotive oil, a fully synthetic product. In today's market, virtually all oils sold are to some extent para-synthetic, since even standard petroleum products usually contain at least some synthetic-derived additives. However, for the sake of simplicity in this article we have listed the products as petroleum if the primary components are from basic petroleum stock. Those listed as synthetics have their primary components derived from basic synthetic stocks, and may or may not contain any additives derived from petroleum products.

    Preliminary Conclusions
    The results of these tests seem to support some of the long-standing theories about oils while casting serious doubt on others. Going by these tests it would seem logical to assume that:


    The viscosity of synthetic-based oils generally drops more slowly than that of petroleum-based oils in the same application.

    Comparing these figures to viscosity retention for the same oils when used in an automobile (see later text by Prof. Woolum) would indicate that motorcycles are indeed harder on oils than cars.

    The fastest and most significant drop in the viscosity of petroleum-based oils used in motorcycles occurs during the first 800 miles (or less) of use.
    All of these results (1-3) agree with everything the oil companies have been telling us all along. However, the same test data also indicates that:

    The viscosities of petroleum-based oils, whether designed for auto or motorcycle application, drop at approximately the same rate when used in a motorcycle.

    There is no evidence that motorcycle-specific oils out-perform their automotive counterparts in viscosity retention when used in a motorcycle.

    These last two results (4-5) definitely do not agree with what the motorcycle oil producers have been telling us. In fact the test results not only indicate the two motorcycle oils being outperformed in viscosity retention by the two automotive synthetic products. but even by the relatively inexpensive Castrol GTX, which is a petroleum product. This directly contradicts the advertising claims made by the motorcycle oil producers.

    The Oil Companies Reply
    At Spectro Oils we talked to three different company spokesmen, all of whom were helpful and provided us with a great deal of information about their products. Unfortunately, despite our repeated requests for the testing data on which their advertising claims were based, the 15 pages of "Lubrication Data" they supplied us contained nothing that could not be found in their regular advertising and marketing packages. No verifiable testing data has been forthcoming.

    The Spectro spokesmen were not pleased when informed of our test results, but when pressed, none could come up with a valid reason why their product should have scored the lowest, either. The only comment we got was, "We only wish you had tested our Golden Spectro synthetic instead of the petroleum-based Spectro 4."

    Undoubtedly the Golden Spectro would have outscored the regular Spectro in our tests, though how well in comparison to the Mobil 1 and Castrol products we can only guess at this point.

    When asked why the Spectro 4 petroleum product sold for $5.00 a quart when comparable automotive oils could be found at less than $1.50 a quart, a Spectro spokesman insisted theirs was "a superior, premium petroleum product, with expensive, shear-stable additives that should outperform automotive oils." That being the case, it should have been the perfect product for our testing.

    We made a half-dozen calls to several different divisions within American Honda, but could find no one willing to make any statement regarding their HP4 motorcycle oil. All of the Honda employees we reached were friendly, and tried to help as much as they could, but you must keep in mind that Honda is a huge conglomerate and sometimes the person with the right answers to a question is difficult to track down through the corporate maze. Their Accessories Product Management Division noted that they had a lubrication expert that might be able to help us, but also that he was out of the country on vacation for the next month and could not be reached before this article went to press. Should someone from Honda wish to comment at a later date, we will certainly make room in a later issue.

    Spokesmen at both Mobil and Castrol were a bit surprised at our questions, since neither makes any claims for their products in a motorcycling context. However, when we explained the test results, neither company spokesman seemed the least bit surprised, both noting that automotive oils in general had made a quantum leap in viscosity retention technology in the past five or six years. Both companies claimed to be using the very latest in shear-stable polymers for viscosity retention, and while claiming no knowledge of the motorcycle-specific oils' formula, expressed serious doubt that they could contain some type of additive that was superior in this context to that already being used in their automotive oils. Our test results support their assertion.

    THE TEST
    As we noted earlier, the viscosity-retention figures reported in the table were the result of a series of tests conducted by Dr. John C. Woolum, Professor of Physics at California State University. Since the validity of these tests is likely to be called into question by motorcycle oil marketers, following are Dr. Woolum's lab notes and explanations of the procedures he followed.
    avatar
    farmer


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 499
    Age : 62
    Localisation : canada
    Date d'inscription : 14/12/2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 2ieme partie

    Message par farmer Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 11:56

    Relative Viscosity Retention Comparisons Among Five Brands of Automotive and Motorcycle Oils
    by John C. Woolum/ Ph.D.
    Professor of Physics
    California State University, Los Angeles
    The central dogma of motorcycle oil manufacturers and distributors has always been that motorcycles put different demands on their lubricants than do automobiles. In particular, they point to the facts that motorcycles run at higher temperatures and use the same oil in their transmissions as in their engines. The transmission gears supposedly put extreme pressures on the oil molecules, thus causing the long oil polymers to break down. High temperatures can have the same basic effect, as well as additional effects such as the increase in oxidation products.

    When the size of the oil polymers decreases ("cut up by the transmission gears," as at least one manufacturer claims), the oil thins. In other words, its viscosity decreases, as well as its ability to lubricate properly. For example, what started out as a 40-weight oil could effectively become a 30-weight oil, or even a 20-weight, after prolonged use. What this means, effectively, is that if the claims of the motorcycle oil producers are valid, they can easily be verified through measurement of viscosity changes on various oils as they are used in different applications.

    Measuring the viscosity drop in oils did not seem like too difficult a task, especially since measuring viscosity of solutions of large molecules is a common practice in many biophysics laboratories - mine included. My lab had all the correct equipment - in fact the viscometers that I normally used for solutions of DNA and proteins were originally designed for oil measurements.

    Setting the Stage
    Viscosity is a measure of the friction between two layers of a liquid sliding relative to one another. It is usually measured in poise, or grams per centimeter per second (g/cm. sec). The basic principle of many viscometers is to measure the time required for a known amount of a liquid to pass through a capillary tube under gravitational force. The time taken will depend on the viscosity and the density of the liquid. The more viscous or less dense the liquid. the longer the time it will take to flow through the capillary.

    Therefore in reality, this kind of viscometer does not measure viscosity directly, but rather the ratio of the viscosity to the density of the liquid being tested. This ratio is called the kinematic viscosity. and the common unit for expressing it is in stokes or poise cm^3/gram.

    The viscometer used for my measurements was an Ostwald-type, Cannon-Fenske 200, designed to measure kinematic viscosities in the range of 10 to 100 centistokes (a centistoke is one-hundredth of a stoke). The oils being measured had kinematic viscosities between about 10 and 25 centistokes.

    For the test samples, I decided to use two types of oils designed specifically for motorcycles and three types of fairly standard automotive oil.

    The automotive oils were Castrol GTX 10W40 (petroleum based, $1.24/qt.), Castrol Syntec 10W40 (synthetic, $3.99/qt.) and Mobil 1 15W50 (synthetic, $3.48/qt.). The motorcycle oils were Spectro 4 10W40 (petroleum based, $4.99/qt.) and Honda HP4 10W40 (petroleum/synthetic blend, $5.99/qt.).

    Each of these oils was run in the same motorcycles 1984 Honda V65 Sabre-under as near to identical conditions as possible. The oils were sampled for testing at 0, 800 and 1500 miles each.

    As temperature has a strong effect on viscosity, I had to make certain it was carefully controlled for the experiments. Using a laboratory temperature control chamber, all measurements were made at 99 degrees Celsius (error factor of plus or minus 0.5 degrees), which is about 210 degrees Fahrenheit. This is the most common temperature used for oil viscosity measurements. It usually took about 15 minutes for each sample to achieve equilibrium within the chamber.

    Each oil's kinematic viscosity was compared with its own kinematic viscosity at 0 miles to establish the viscosity ratio. In addition, measurements were made of each oil's density at each state of the tests. The densities were found to change by less than one percent, which is about the limit of the accuracy of the measurements. Therefore, a ratio of the times taken for the oils to pass through the viscometer effectively gives the ratio of their actual viscosities, since the densities cancel out.

    What this all means in layman's terms then, is that the ratio established for each oil at the end of each test is a percentage of the amount of original viscosity retained at that point. For example. the Castro] GTX sample at 800 miles showed a relative viscosity of 0.722, meaning it had retained 72.2 percent of its original viscosity. Or, if you want to look at it the other way, the Castrol had lost 27.8 percent of its viscosity after 800 miles of use in the motorcycle.

    Just for comparison sake, I also tested the viscosity drop of the Castrol GTX automotive oil after use in a 1987 Honda Accord automobile. At 3600 miles of use, the Castrol GTX showed a relative viscosity of 91.8 percent.

    As the Mobil 1 had retained so much of its viscosity after the 1500 mile test, it was the only oil I allowed to run longer in the motorcycle. After 2500 miles, the Mobil 1 recorded a relative viscosity of 79.1 percent.

    Also, it is worthy of note that from a testing standpoint, the two most similar oils were the Castrol GTX automotive oil and the Spectro 4 motorcycle oil. By similar, I mean that they tested as having almost the same absolute kinematic viscosity and density right out of the container. So starting out as equals, the Castrol maintained its viscosity several percentage points higher than the Spectro, under the same use in the same motorcycle yet the Spectro costs about four times the price of the Castrol.

    The Error Factor
    As a scientist, I must always ask myself. Are there possible errors in these measurements that would make them invalid? One possibility here would be that there was more particulate matter (contaminants) in some oil samples than in others, which would increase the viscosity numbers of that oil. Particulates disrupt the streamline flow and so increase the viscosity. (Einstein was the first to derive the quantitive expression for the increase in viscosity due to spherically, shaped particles.)

    Large particulates should have been removed by the oil filter, and a new filter was used for each test. Still, to determine the effect of smaller particulates the oil samples were centrifuged at 11,000 g (11,000 times the acceleration of gravity) for a period of 10 minutes. A considerable amount of particulate matter was found and removed in all of the 800 mile and 1500 mile samples. However, the change in viscosity made by eliminating these particulates was found to be negligible.

    Another possible source of error would be that the conditions to which the oils were subjected were different. In all cases, the distances were comprised of approximately 70 percent city riding and 30 percent freeway riding. The range of temperatures and the average ambient temperature during which the motorcycle was ridden were approximately the same. If anything, the average ambient temperature was higher during the operation of the motorcycle with the Mobil 1 oil, which should have put it at a disadvantage, yet it scored the highest overall in the viscosity retention tests.

    Of course the motorcycle did age somewhat during the testing period, which took place over a year-long span. It registered about 4000 miles at the beginning of these tests and about 14,000 at the end. The order in which the oils were tested was:
    1) Castrol, 2) Spectro, 3) Mobil and 4) Honda.

    Other Criteria
    The motorcycle oil producers have suggested that other criteria. such as the amount of wear metals and contaminants, might be unacceptable when using automotive oil in a motorcycle. To test this theory, I sent a sample of the Castrol GTX at 1500 miles to SpectroTech. Inc., for a complete oil analysis. Their findings were that all contaminants (water, dirt, coolant and sludge) were normal.

    SpectroTech also reported that all wear elements (antimony, titanium, silver, copper, lead, tin, aluminum, nickel, chromium, cadmium, sodium and boron) were normal except for iron, which was reported as "mildly above normal" at 51 parts per million.

    SpectroTech lists acceptable levels for all of the above listed metals except iron, for which they state, "values vary greatly with systems and parts." so it is not clear what exactly is meant by "mildly above normal." Perhaps it was in comparison to cars with 1500 miles on the oil. Also, this could have been due to cam wear, since the early Honda V-4s were known for excessive cam and rocker arm wear.

    In any case, again I could find nothing to support the argument that automotive oils were somehow less effective than motorcycle-specific lubricants when used in a motorcycle.

    Bottom Line
    It could appear from this data, then, that there is no validity to the constantly-used argument that motorcycle-specific oils provide superior lubrication to automotive oils when used in a motorcycle. If the viscosity drop is the only criterion, then there is certainly no reason to spend the extra money on oil specifically designed for motorcycles. There does, however, appear to be a legitimate argument for using synthetic and synthetic-blend oils over the petroleum based products.

    MCN's Conclusions
    In speaking to a number of people involved in the production, marketing and distribution of motorcycle-specific oils, we could not find anyone who could present a valid argument for discrediting the testing done by Dr. Woolum. In general, they all tried to turn the conversation another direction by bringing up other possible advantages to using their products, while ignoring the viscosity-retention question. Yet without exception it is their own advertising that consistently brings the subject up, touting the special shear-stable polymers as the primary reason motorcyclists should purchase their products.

    It is this practice to which we take exception, as we have been unable to find evidence to support these claims. In short, it seems to be nothing more than a clever marketing ploy designed to enhance their products' image and separate motorcyclists from their money.

    MCN is ready to print any research or test results provided by the oil companies to support their claims of superior viscosity retention, with this one proviso: The comparisons must be against actual, SG-rated oil products that can be purchased off the shelf at the average auto parts store. Tests against generic, basic-stock mineral oil or against the lower-rated SE and SF oils would lack any credibility in a real-world context.

    Despite more than six months of research, reading all the claims and counter-claims printed by dozens of industry experts and lubrication experts, MCN cannot and does not purport to know all there is to know about the differences between automotive and motorcycle oils. However, what we do know is that we can find no substantive evidence that using a high-quality, name-brand automotive oil in an average street motorcycle is in any way harmful or less effective in providing proper lubrication and protection than using the more expensive, motorcycle-specific oils.

    Figure I Petroleum Based, Multiple Viscosity, SG-Rated, Oils
    Best Retail Prices Found
    Motorcycle Oils

    Name Price
    Honda GN4
    Kawasaki Premium
    Maxum 4 Premium
    Motul 3000
    Spectro 4
    Torco 4-Cycle
    Torco MPZ 2.95
    2.65
    3.79
    4.99
    4.99
    3.25
    3.95
    Average Price/qt. 3.80
    Automotive Oils <
    Name Price
    Pennzoil
    Havoline
    Quaker State
    Motorcraft
    AC Delco
    Castrol GTX
    Valvoline 1.24
    1.09
    1.23
    1.09
    1.24
    1.24
    1.23
    Average Price/qt. 1.19
    Average Price Differential: 319.5%
    Synthetic Based and Petroleum/Synthetic Blend
    Multiple Viscosity, SG-Rated Oils
    Best Retail Prices Found
    Motorcycle Oils

    Name Price
    Honda HP4
    Golden Spectro 4
    Maxum 4
    Maxum 4 Extra
    Motul 3100
    Torco T4-R 5.99
    5.99
    6.48
    9.79
    4.99
    5.95
    Average Price/qt. 6.53
    Automotive Oils <
    Name Price
    Castrol Syntec
    Mobil 1
    Valvoline Hi-Perf.
    Valvoline Racing
    Pep Boys Synthetic 3.99
    3.48
    3.59
    3.59
    2.99
    Average Price/qt. 3.53
    Average Price Differential: 185.0%


    Figure II Relative Viscosity Retention
    (as a percentage of initial viscosity retained
    after normal use in the same motorcycle)

    0 miles 800mi 1500mi
    Mobil 1
    Castrol Syntec
    Castrol GTX
    Honda HP4
    Spectro 4 100%
    100%
    100%
    100%
    100% 86.6%
    78.1%
    72.2%
    69.2%
    68.0% 83.0%
    74.5%
    68.0%
    65.6%
    63.9%



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    [ Home | Top of Page ]
    [ Search | Site Map | Feedback ]


    moi je dit on paye plus cher l'huile de moto ,alors je vais mettre de l'huile automobile
    DidBoum
    DidBoum
    Admin


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 13031
    Age : 67
    Localisation : Béarn Libre
    Date d'inscription : 17/11/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: RE Interceptor - 500CX - Motobec 50V
    Année: 2020 - 1982 - 1971

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par DidBoum Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 13:50

    Haarg2 Si tu me fais la meme en français je te jure que je te répond !...


    _________________
    L'homme jeune marche plus vite que l'ancien, mais l'ancien connait la route ....
    Terminator
    Terminator


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 5486
    Age : 69
    Localisation : Là où se finit la terre et où il ne pleut que sur les cons !...
    Date d'inscription : 10/01/2008

    Ma Moto
    Modele: Terminator, quoi... LE FAT-BOY !
    Année: 2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Terminator Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 13:52

    I don't speak english !!!
    Anonymous
    Invité
    Invité


    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Invité Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 13:58

    I speak english but it's too long for me.....Sorry !!! Haarg1
    sergentgarcia
    sergentgarcia


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 1392
    Age : 62
    Localisation : yvelines
    Date d'inscription : 04/12/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: dyna super glide custom
    Année: 2008

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par sergentgarcia Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 14:31

    Ai donte spique ineglish. Iou are of HD forum beute frenche HD forum.
    Ze Canadien is very farceur. rir4
    Plise transelaite bicose ail note listene in skoule ail ame au fond pres du radiateur.
    Sau riz obelix
    Anonymous
    Invité
    Invité


    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Invité Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 17:51

    Ha ben ouai, c'est sur que là..... c'eût été du français j'aurai déjà eu du mal à tout lire, mais alors là dans la langue de chèque spire même pas j'y pense... :-)

    Mais bon le titre suffit, l'huile moto c'est de la grosse arnaque, c'est pas nouveau.... :-)
    jean voilegaz
    jean voilegaz


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 794
    Age : 66
    Localisation : 59 Hem (nord)
    Date d'inscription : 17/11/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: Sportster 883
    Année: 1987

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par jean voilegaz Mar 12 Fév 2008 - 19:27

    de toute façon, ça fait 10 ans que je roule à la carrouf synthétique 5W50, pas pret de changer.
    Et en plus j'entrave que dalle à l'anglais
    avatar
    farmer


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 499
    Age : 62
    Localisation : canada
    Date d'inscription : 14/12/2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par farmer Mer 13 Fév 2008 - 2:31

    moi je lai traduit avec google,la traduction est bizarre mais donne vous la peine de lire au lieu de gueule grand enfant ,salut de farmer
    Tanxane
    Tanxane
    Admin


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 16738
    Age : 58
    Localisation : St Barth
    Date d'inscription : 18/11/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: 1690 FLTRXS, 1550 FXDB, 750 XRV et 103SP
    Année: 2015, 2006, 1993, 1989

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Tanxane Mer 13 Fév 2008 - 10:44

    Et avec des images....... enfin juste un peu pour agrémenter..........

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Page_210


    _________________
    "L'humour est une tentative pour décaper les grands sentiments de leur connerie. "
    De Raymond QUENEAU
    sergentgarcia
    sergentgarcia


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 1392
    Age : 62
    Localisation : yvelines
    Date d'inscription : 04/12/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: dyna super glide custom
    Année: 2008

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par sergentgarcia Mer 13 Fév 2008 - 11:34

    Comme disent Omar et Fred
    "tu vois, il faut mettre de l'huile pour que le piston il coulisse bien dans le cylindre.Faut en mettre baucoups" Haarg1
    ludo13
    ludo13


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 424
    Age : 47
    Localisation : aix en provence
    Date d'inscription : 18/10/2007

    Ma Moto
    Modele: SOLEX st
    Année: 2002

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par ludo13 Mer 13 Fév 2008 - 20:47

    ben moi je met de l'huile d'olive extra de la region
    avatar
    farmer


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 499
    Age : 62
    Localisation : canada
    Date d'inscription : 14/12/2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty liser sa les amis

    Message par farmer Dim 17 Fév 2008 - 1:01

    Choix de la meilleure huile à moteur est un thème qui revient fréquemment dans les discussions entre motoheads, qu'ils parlent de voitures ou de motos. L'article qui suit est destiné à vous aider à faire un choix basé sur bien plus que le battage publicitaire.
    Les compagnies pétrolières fournissent des données sur leurs huiles plus souvent dénommée «inspection type de données". Il s'agit là d'une moyenne de la réalité physique et quelques communes de leurs propriétés chimiques des huiles. Cette information est à la disposition du public par l'intermédiaire de leurs distributeurs ou par écrit ou en appelant directement la société. J'ai compilé une liste des plus populaires, de la prime d'huiles de sorte qu'un prêt comparaison peut être faite. Si votre favori pétrole ne figure pas sur la liste d'obtenir les données du distributeur et utiliser ce que j'ai comme une base de données.

    Cet article va se pencher sur six des plus importantes propriétés de l'huile à moteur à la disposition du public: viscosité, indice de viscosité (VI), point d'éclair, point d'écoulement,% cendres sulfatées, et% de zinc.

    La viscosité est une mesure de la «fluidité» de l'huile. Plus précisément, il est la propriété d'une huile de développer et de maintenir une certaine quantité de stress tonte dépendantes de la circulation, puis a continué à offrir une résistance à l'écoulement. Huiles épaisses ont généralement une plus grande viscosité, plus minces et une plus faible viscosité des huiles. C'est la plus importante propriété d'un moteur. Une huile avec une viscosité trop faible cisaillement et peut perdre la force du film à haute température. Une huile avec une viscosité trop élevée ne peut pas à la bonne pompe régions à basses températures et le film peut déchirer tournait à haut régime.

    Les poids donnés sur les huiles sont arbitraires numéros attribués par la SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers). Ces chiffres correspondent à des "vrais" viscosité, tel que mesuré par plusieurs techniques acceptées. Ces mesures sont prises à des températures spécifiques. Huiles qui entrent dans une certaine gamme sont désignées 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 de la SAE Le W signifie l'huile répond aux spécifications de viscosité à 0 F et est donc adapté à l'utilisation d'hiver.

    Multi viscosité des huiles travail comme ceci: Les polymères sont ajoutés à une base de la lumière (5W, 10W, 20W), ce qui empêche le pétrole de l'amincissement autant qu'il réchauffe. A basse température, les polymères sont enroulées en place et permettre à l'huile de s'écouler que de leurs faibles effectifs indiquer. Comme l'huile réchauffe les polymères commencer à se résorber en longues chaînes qui empêchent le pétrole de l'amincissement, autant que d'habitude. Le résultat est que, à 100 degrés C, l'huile a éclairci que ce que le plus grand nombre indique la viscosité. Une autre façon de voir les multi-vis des huiles est de penser à une 20W-50 comme un 20 poids que le pétrole ne sera pas mince plus de poids serait de 50 à chaud.

    Multi viscosité des huiles sont l'une des grandes améliorations dans les huiles, mais ils doivent être choisis judicieusement. Toujours utiliser un multi grade le plus étroit avec la travée de la viscosité qui est approprié pour les températures que vous allez rencontrer. En hiver baser votre décision sur la température la plus basse que vous rencontrerez, au cours de l'été, la température la plus élevée que vous attendez. Les polymères peuvent cisaillement et faisant brûler les dépôts qui peuvent causer une bague de friction et d'autres problèmes. 10W-40 et 5W-30 nécessiterait beaucoup de polymères (synthétiques exclus) à la réalisation de cet éventail. Cela a causé des problèmes dans les moteurs diesel, mais moins de polymères sont meilleurs pour tous les moteurs. La large gamme de viscosité des huiles, de manière générale, sont plus enclins à la viscosité et la décomposition thermique due à la forte teneur en polymère. Il est l'huile qui lubrifie et non additifs. Huiles qui peuvent faire leur travail avec le moins d'additifs sont les meilleurs.

    Très peu de produits manufacturés recommander 10W-40, pas plus, et certains menacent de garantie nulle si elle est utilisée. Il n'a pas été inclus dans cet article pour cette raison. 20W-50 est le même en 30 points répartis, mais parce qu'il commence par un accroissement de la charge de base, il nécessite moins d'améliorants de l'indice de viscosité (polymères) pour faire le travail. AMSOIL peuvent formuler leurs 10W-30 et 15W-40 sans améliorants de l'indice de viscosité, mais utilise certains dans la 10W-40 et 5W-30. Mobil 1 n'utilise pas dans leur améliorants de viscosité 5W-30, et je suppose que la nouvelle 10W-30. Suivez les recommandations du fabricant de votre quant au poids qui sont appropriés pour votre véhicule.

    Indice de viscosité est une empiriques numéro indiquant le taux de variation de la viscosité de l'huile dans une plage de température donnée. Des nombres plus élevés indiquent un faible changement, la baisse les chiffres indiquent un assez grand changement. Plus ce nombre est élevé, mieux ce sera. Il s'agit là d'un des principaux biens d'une huile qui garde vos roulements heureux. Ces chiffres ne peuvent être comparés à l'aide d'une viscosité gamme. Il ne s'agit pas d'une indication de l'efficacité de l'huile résiste à la répartition thermique.

    Point d'éclair est la température à laquelle une huile dégage des vapeurs qui peuvent être enflammés par une flamme qui s'est tenue sur le pétrole. Plus le point d'éclair le plus tendance de l'huile à subir une perte de vaporisation à haute température et à brûler sur les parois du cylindre chaud et pistons. Le point d'éclair peut être un indicateur de la qualité de la pâte utilisée. Plus le point d'éclair le mieux. 400 F est le minimum possible pour empêcher la consommation élevée. Point d'éclair est en degrés F.

    Point d'écoulement est de 5 degrés F au-dessus du point à partir duquel l'huile réfrigéré ne montre aucun mouvement à la surface pendant 5 secondes quand incliné. Cette mesure est particulièrement importante pour les huiles utilisées en hiver. Une limite de pompage température est donnée par certains fabricants. C'est la température à laquelle la pompe à huile et de conserver suffisamment de pression d'huile. Cela n'a pas été donné par un grand nombre de fabricants, mais semble être d'environ 20 degrés F au-dessus du point d'écoulement. La baisse du point d'écoulement, mieux ce sera. Point d'écoulement est en degrés F.

    % Cendres sulfatées est de savoir combien de matériau solide qui reste quand le pétrole brûle. Une forte teneur en cendres auront tendance à former davantage les boues et les dépôts dans le moteur. Faible teneur en cendres semble également favoriser à long soupape vie. Rechercher des huiles avec une faible teneur en cendres.

    % De zinc est la quantité de zinc utilisé comme une extrême pression, anti-usure additif. Le zinc est utilisé seulement lorsqu'il ya un contact métal sur métal dans le moteur. Il faut espérer que le pétrole va faire son travail, ce qui surviennent rarement, mais si c'est le cas, le zinc réagissent avec les composés métalliques pour éviter les éraflures et l'usure. Un niveau de .11% est suffisant pour protéger le moteur d'une automobile pour l'intervalle de vidange d'huile prolongée, dans des conditions normales d'utilisation. Ceux d'entre vous à haute revving, refroidi par air, motocyclettes ou turbo voitures ou vélos inculpé pourrait vouloir se pencher sur les huiles avec la teneur en zinc plus élevés. Plus ne vous donne pas une meilleure protection, il vous donne plus de protection si le taux de contact métal sur métal est anormalement élevée. Haute teneur en zinc peut conduire à la formation de dépôt et branchez l'encrassement.

    Les données:
    --- Indique répertoriés par ordre alphabétique les données n'étaient pas disponibles
    Marque ...................... VI Flash .... ...... Versez ....% cendres de zinc ....%
    20W-50
    AMSOIL (ancien )........... 136 ..... 482 ......- 38 ......<. 5 ........---
    AMSOIL (nouveau )......... 157 ...... 507 .....- 44 ....... ---........---
    Castrol GTX 122 ...... .............. 440 .....- 15 ........ 85 .....-. 12
    Exxon High Perf 119 ......... ...... 419 .....- 13 ......-. 70 .....-. 11
    Havoline Formule 3 .... 125 ....... 465 .....- 30 ....... 1,0 .......---
    Kendall GT-1 ............ 129 ....... 390 .....- 25 ....... 1,0 .....-. 16
    Pennzoil GT Perf ........ 120 ...... 460 .....- 10 ........-. 9 .......---
    Quaker State Dlx 155 ....... ...... 430 .....- 25 ........-. 9 .......---
    Red Line 150 .................... ...... 503 .....- 49 .........---. .....---
    Shell Truck Garde ...... 130 ...... 450 .....- 15 ........ 1,0 .....-. 15
    Spectro Golden 4 ....... 174 ...... 440 .....- 35 ........---.....-. 15
    Spectro Golden MG.174 ...... 440 .....- 35 ........---.....-. 13
    Unocal ........................ 121 ...... 432 .....- 11 ......-. 74. ....-. 12
    Tous Valvoline climatique ... 125 ...... 430 .....- 10 ........ 1,0 ....-. 11
    Valvoline Turbo ........... 140 ..... 440 .....- 10 .......-. 99 ....-. 13
    Valvoline Race ............ 140 ..... 425 .....- 10 ........ 1,2 ....-. 20
    Valvoline Synthetic ...... 146 ..... 465 .....- 40 ......< 1,5 ....-. 12

    Toutes les huiles ci-dessus, actuel SG / CD matelots et la fabrication des véhicules de toutes les exigences de garantie en la bonne viscosité. Tous sont "assez bon", mais ceux avec les meilleurs numéros sont la cerise sur le gâteau.

    Les synthétiques offrent les seules différences vraiment significatives, en raison de leur supérieur résistance à l'oxydation à haute température, la force du film de haut, très faible tendance à former des dépôts, la viscosité de base stables, et les caractéristiques d'écoulement à basse température. Les synthétiques sont supérieurs par rapport aux lubrifiants traditionnels huiles de pétrole. Vous aurez à décider si leur coût élevé est justifié dans votre application.

    L'étendue des intervalles de vidange d'huile donnée par les fabricants de véhicules (typiquement 7500 milles) et synthétiques compagnies pétrolières (jusqu'à 25000 milles) sont pour ce qui est appelé le service normal. Un service normal est défini comme étant le moteur à température normale de fonctionnement, à des vitesses autoroute, et dans un environnement exempt de poussière. Stop and go, la conduite de ville, les voyages de moins de 10 milles, ou de chaleur ou de froid extrême met de l'huile dans l'intervalle de modification de graves catégorie de service, qui est de 3000 milles pour la plupart des véhicules. Synthetics peut être exécuté de deux à trois fois le kilométrage des huiles de pétrole sans problème. Ils ne réagissent pas à la combustion et de sous-produits de combustion dans la mesure où les morts ne jus de dinosaure. Les intervalles de vidange plus possible les aider à prendre la morsure de la hausse du coût des fibres synthétiques. Si votre voiture ou de vélo est encore sous garantie, vous devrez tenir à l'recommandé intervalles de vidange. Celles-ci sont fixées pour les huiles de pétrole et les fabricants ne font aucune indemnité officielle de l'utilisation de produits synthétiques.

    Pétrole additifs ne doit pas être utilisé. Les compagnies pétrolières ont ménagé aucun effort pour élaborer un additif paquet qui répond aux exigences du véhicule. Certains de ces additifs sont synergiques, c'est l'effet de deux additifs ensemble est plus grand que l'effet de chacune agissant séparément. Si vous ajoutez quelque chose à l'huile, vous pouvez rompre cet équilibre et éviter de s'acquitter de l'huile à la spécification.

    Les chiffres ci-dessus ne sont pas, par quelque moyen que ce soit, tout ce qu'il ya à déterminer ce qui fait une huile de qualité supérieure. Le bilan exact de base utilisée, le type, la qualité et la quantité des additifs utilisés sont très importants. Les données sont combinées avec le constructeur le prétend, de votre expérience personnelle, et la réputation de l'huile parmi d'autres qui l'utilisent devraient vous aider à faire un choix éclairé.



    Retour à la page Tune up
    Allemand à : AnglaisAllemand à : FrançaisAnglais à : AllemandAnglais à : ArabeAnglais à : Chinois (simplifié)Anglais à : Chinois (traditionnel)Anglais à : CoréenAnglais à : EspagnolAnglais à : FrançaisAnglais à : GrecAnglais à : ItalienAnglais à : JaponaisAnglais à : NéerlandaisAnglais à : PortugaisAnglais à : RusseArabe à : AnglaisChinois à : AnglaisChinois (simplifié à : traditionnel)Chinois (traditionnel à : simplifié)Coréen à : AnglaisEspagnol à : AnglaisFrançais à : AllemandFrançais à : AnglaisGrec à : AnglaisItalien à : AnglaisJaponais à : AnglaisNéerlandais à : AnglaisPortugais à : AnglaisRusse à : Anglais
    sergentgarcia
    sergentgarcia


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 1392
    Age : 62
    Localisation : yvelines
    Date d'inscription : 04/12/2006

    Ma Moto
    Modele: dyna super glide custom
    Année: 2008

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par sergentgarcia Dim 17 Fév 2008 - 11:32

    Merci Farmer. coeur1 C'est quand meme beaucoup plus joli en Français, en plus y'a
    la traduc de Google qui est marrante rir5
    Ex:
    "Si votre voiture ou de vélo encore sous garantie, "
    "la morsure de la hausse du coût des fibres synthétiquesest"
    Ca me rappel les traducs des modes d'emplois des Japys dans les annees 80 idee
    avatar
    farmer


    Masculin
    Nombre de messages : 499
    Age : 62
    Localisation : canada
    Date d'inscription : 14/12/2006

    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty merci pour les reponse

    Message par farmer Dim 9 Mar 2008 - 15:04

    lhuile reste toujour un bon sujet
    Anonymous
    Invité
    Invité


    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Invité Dim 9 Mar 2008 - 20:24

    Un "marronnier" ça s'appelle en presse....

    Contenu sponsorisé


    pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto    1er partie Empty Re: pourquoi paye plus cher huile moto que auto 1er partie

    Message par Contenu sponsorisé


      La date/heure actuelle est Ven 22 Nov 2024 - 16:46